Poll: Are OccupyMN Tents Part of Right to Dissent?

Iam AnonEmous December 9, 2011 at 10:47 pm

99% semantics... no one took a damn poll... "99%" refers to the majority.
Also... revolution will never be legal... do you think the people involved with our own American Revolution from Britain followed the established laws? Hell no they didn't! Furthermore, you might want to read up a bit on your current events... there is no leader, no political affiliation... We are Americans from all walks of life who know this short life of ours is far more important than to be born, work, die... We are humans... not ants! See this video... maybe it will shed some light upon your closed mind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auu4akyyedw&feature=channel_video_title

ward tatro December 10, 2011 at 03:36 pm

R. Parker...No leader? No political affiliation? Obviiously you missed the newsclip of Von Jones (You do know who Von Jones is? Of course you do) sitting there telling us "You ain't seen anything yet" with a big smile on his face pretty well convinced me that OWS was not the noble cause that you and your comrades are behind

Kathee December 10, 2011 at 06:43 pm

The majority of what? I don't want to be considered a part of the majority, if those involved feel they are entitled to break the law or infringe on others rights in a disrespectful manner.
BTW: I have been unemployed since July 2010. Should I be mad at the woman parking her new BMW next to my old car? Should my kids resent their friends who were given an elaborate birthday cake & party, while mine got a homemade cake with family? Life Lesson: Not everyone wins. Not everyone is equal. Never has been, never will be. Do what makes you happy within yourself.

John Haluska December 10, 2011 at 07:07 pm

Kathy, last time I checked the American Revolution was fought by those who broke the law in a mostfisrezpectful manner. We are to this day the beneficiaries of their illegal acts. OWS is simplythere continuing in a generally peaceful manner whst America's founders began with violence. Hopefully the actions of OWS will someday be seen as a beginning of the return of America to the values that create a society that is fair to everyone

Iam AnonEmous December 10, 2011 at 08:16 pm

@kathy The majority of Americans. Why play dumb here, you knew what I meant. 50 milliion people in our country are unemployed and each job has four or more hoping to land that job.
I don't think you should get mad... if you want to get mad then you should consider joining us. My malcontent is with the banksters on wall street whom WE tax payers BAILED OUT... at the disgression of the SEC, congress and the treasury. The US government has exceeded it's usefulness to us as a whole. The two party political system is failed and is an underlying cause for the problems we face. The fashion in which our government has manipulated federal law to benefit the lobbyists and certain monopolizing industries, with the deepest pockets. They do not make law based on what the people want or need. Certainly not everyone wins, but in this day and age, do you really think 3 billion people on this planet should have to live on $10 a day? Could you? If you do not agree with the occupy movement, then I suggest you sit in your comfy home, in your "it's just the way it is" life and let those of us who DO feel it is time for change, to make that change a reality. Going out of your way to argue does nothing for either. Thanks for your time and response. No hard feelings... just huge differences in philosophy and frame of mind.

Iam AnonEmous December 10, 2011 at 08:32 pm

The political pundits will always try to align themselves with a majority. After all, they merely care about their re-election at this point. I guarantee if you took the time to go downtown and speak to some of those whom are occupying the People's Plaza, they no longer want the two party system. your Mr. Jones is no exception. Appointed by Obama as "Special Advisor for Green Jobs"... HAHA green jobs... I see that is going well.
Personally I am working on a small engine that runs on water... H2O. Nothing else. The patents are out there and have been for years. Look it up. Knowledge is free... educate yourself. Why do we not hear anything about water fuel or the GEET fuel system? Stanley Meyer among others have proven it possible and relatively easy to accomplish. Yet, when they attempt to bring such technologies to market they mysteriously become ill or die suddenly or are even jailed. I'll let you make your own conclusions. Do not fall into the status quot rederick politicians automatically feed the mainstream medias. There is no one individual "behind" the occupy movements. It is simply an idea of change that we all need. I suggest you turn off your boob tube and talk to those around you. Just because you may not be hurting, doesn't mean everyone else is blessed to have the same situation.

Iam AnonEmous December 10, 2011 at 08:38 pm

@Chris Stellar... With all due respect, ToS is not law. The constitution as well as the federal supreme court guarantee anonymity in protest. See http://www.constitution.org/ussc/514-334a.htm
I humbly suggest you check it out. The ability the right to protest anonymously is built into our country's foundations. So long as it is not used to sell or pitch anything. It protects citizens that fear backlash and attacks from small minded people, typically who resist change the most. Thank you for providing this forum for us to discuss the exceptional times we find ourselves living in today.

ward tatro December 10, 2011 at 11:18 pm

R. Parker...My previous response was made to your letter saying "There is no leader or political affiliation.
Von Jones is an avowed communist who Pres. Obama was going to appoint as a Czar. However, after much uproar, the Pres. changed his mind. The Internet is full of data on engines running on water (Hydrogen). I have never heard of the GEET fuel system, but will turn off my boob tube and find out what it is. Von Jones wants to get rid of the two party system too. What do you think we should replace it with? Your philosophy is in line with Von Jones. You're both bitter individuals who hate this great country.

John Haluska December 11, 2011 at 02:36 pm

It's too bad the difference between is and was is no longer understood by radical right-wingers who like to divide our communities along whatever lines of bias, bogotry, and hatred appeal to them on any given day. And it's of equal concern that they rely on Glenn Beck as a sorce or historical or centemporary fact as he is a but a goldmine of disinformation. Van Jones may ndeed have supported home grown marxist causes in his days as a student, just as Tatro may at one time have believed in the tooth fairy. Though Tatro may still cling to the tooth fairy (he evidently does blieve Beck!), Jones is not in this a communist.

John Haluska December 11, 2011 at 02:40 pm

Jone is not a communist today. In his 2008 bookThe GreenCollar Economy Jones said"We are entering an era during which our very survival will demand invention and innovation on a scale never before seen in the history of human civilization. Only the business community has the requisite skills, experience, and capital to meet that need. On that score, neither government nor the nonprofit and voluntary sectors can compete, not even remotely.
So in the end, our success and survival as a species are largely and directly tied to the new eco-entrepreneurs—and the success and survival of their enterprises. Since almost all of the needed eco-technologies are likely to come from the private sector, civic leaders and voters should do all that can be done to help green business leaders succeed. That means, in large part, electing leaders who will pass bills to aid them. We cannot realistically proceed without a strong alliance between the best of the business world—and everyone else."

John Haluska December 11, 2011 at 02:48 pm

Tatro of course can continue to believe in Glenn BecK and in the tooth fairy and can keep on labeling those who don't share the fantasies of the radical right as haters of the USA.The fact is that those radical hate mongers of the right who are fearful of everything that's different and doesn't agree with their biases and bigotry and racism are in the minority and that's what makes them lash out in anger at all who oppose them.

ward tatro December 11, 2011 at 04:09 pm

You tell me I'm lashing out in anger? Your three posts above tell me you are about ready to go over the edge. Chill out.
Ever hear of a group called "The communist revolutionary organization"? Von Jones was the founder and leader. I didn't hear this from Glen Beck' Did Von Jones autograph his book for you?

Kathee December 11, 2011 at 05:34 pm

John - I made no comments regarding the American Revolution nor was I alive at that time to make my voice heard. Thank you for your comment.

Kathee December 11, 2011 at 05:52 pm

@ R: It's ashame you feel I asked a dumb question and my statements shouldn't be made.
Yes, I do know what it's like to live on less than $10/day with children to raise, Do you?? It's not an arguement, just a comment.

John Haluska December 11, 2011 at 06:09 pm

It would be nice if the radical right would deal in facts for a change. Von Jones of 2012 is clearly a capitalist. And when it omes to Jones the radical right clearly follows a script from the Becks of the world and condemn any who disagree with them as unpatriotic haters of America. Fortunately such simplistic hate is in the minority in this country.

ward tatro December 11, 2011 at 11:09 pm

It would also be nice if the looney left would accept facts. How in the world can you make such a ludicrous statement "Von Jones of 2012 is clearly a capitalist"? Is that his new years resolution?
I think Glen Beck is a nice guy who does a good job of exposing people like you and your comrades. Speaking of scripts,you never answered my question. Did Von Jones autograph his book for you? God bless the U.S.A.

John Haluska December 12, 2011 at 01:34 am

Comrades, rather than take my word ( orTatro's) on Van Jones' present politics, check out what Politifact has to say. Wkipedia also has what looks to be a complete biography.

Colin Lee December 12, 2011 at 04:47 am

The last two commenters have managed to leave the most irrelevant and ridiculous comments yet. In case there's anyone gullible enough to take a fool seriously who throws around "comrade" and mispells everything, Van Jones is totally meaningless and irrelevant to this discussion. The mere fact that he's being imposed in this discussion evokes Orwellian thought control. The journalist asked if the Occupy folks should be allowed to have tents, not what you think of figures no one is interested in and which have nothing to do with the topic. Occupy Wall Street was originally started by Adbusters and Kevin Zeese, Ralph Nader's campaign manager. However, no one owns it. I've seen signs for Ron Paul and Ralph Nader at these protests, but Van Jones is a nobody. He might as well be Snowball from Animal Farm.

John Haluska December 12, 2011 at 06:51 am

Finally! My points being no matter the question or topic it gets taken by the right as an opportunity to spew their usual propaganda. Jones is irrelevant to the discussion and a minor figure in general except that he's a favorite bogeyman of Beck and his disciples and so he's -his name is- frequently used by them as an epitaph and insult. Most importantly, lighten up on your spelling complaint. It's hard to type on this phone! And please, since you seem to be of a serious nature, get toto the point of the originalday question which I don't believe you answered. Should they be allowed tents? My opinion is in some cases yes, in most cases probably no. It depends on too many variables and is too simply or broadly posed to be dealt with here.

Kathee December 12, 2011 at 11:32 am

Patch Asks: "Do you believe demonstrators should be able to pitch tents on government property?"
My answer: No. I do not believe tents should be allowed. I don't have a problem with people who want to assemble or protest but winter happens. Either adjust to the changing enviroment, take shifts protesting or go home and come up with another way to protest. The Constitution does not require shelter to be provided to those who choose to use their Right to assemble/free speech.

John Haluska December 12, 2011 at 12:03 pm

The rights to assembly and petition are what are at stake. People also have a right to provide for their own survival as in to provide themselves with food, clothing, and shelter. The statement made about shelter being provided is not correct. None has been provided. They've brought their own. Tents in a parkis hardly a major imposition on society. Tents in a street would be considered wrong by most everyone unless the point is to show they've been driven from a park where in most instances their use in a peaceful protest should be appropriate.

Kathee December 12, 2011 at 12:31 pm

Yes - The protestors "provided" their own shelter.
Tents in a City park infringes on the rights of those who would like to enjoy the park for something other than a campground.

John Haluska December 12, 2011 at 12:45 pm

Since when do matters of convenience trump rights of petition, assembly and speech?

Kathee December 12, 2011 at 01:28 pm

That's exactly the reason tents should not be allowed. They are nothing more than a "matter of convenience" and have nothing to do with the Right to petition, assembly and speech.

John Haluska December 12, 2011 at 01:35 pm

Why is your recreational convenience more important than their rights to assembly, etc.? Keep in mind that public parks in the American and British tradition are the ultimate public space regarding the exercise of these rights.

Jeff Wilfahrt - Andrews Round Table December 12, 2011 at 02:24 pm

To my way of thinking the tents are symbolic. The tents symbolize that there is staying power to the efforts of OWS to raise consciousness about what it means to participate in our would be democracy. And since I sleep in my own bed the presence of the tents doesn't really irritate me one bit. In fact, like the lyrical phrase "that our flag was still there" relative to our collective symbol Old Glory, I take some comfort that OWS continues to persist, or to paraphrase "that the tents are still there."
Democracy is not a thing that thrives on stasis. Change is needed and indeed is the only constant. The tents will leave when change occurs. The tents are symbolic indeed. And if the sight of them bothers a person, then look the other way.

roger b hess jr December 12, 2011 at 02:56 pm

that's right, many "occupy" sites have 99 tents, usually small, clear plastic ones that can be carried during marches as symbols, and have nothing to do with providing shelter.
every crime that has been listed occurs in parks throughout minnesota every year, without the presence of "occupy" protesters. i am glad to see people going out to protest, and protesting a variety of subjects. americans have sat quietly and passively for way too long while our freedoms have been taken away from us in the name of "safety" - what happened to "give me liberty or give me death" and we still tell our military personnel that it is noble to die for freedom, yet we quietly let the government take complete control of our lives. the federal government condemns the cracking down of foreign governments on protesters in other countries, but seems to allow the violence that police in the US are using right here against these mostly peaceful protesters. what was the point of spraying protesters sitting quietly with harsh chemicals?

Ken Coy December 12, 2011 at 06:14 pm

Semantics, huh? No, just an out and out lie. They are NOT the 99% and they're not the majority (or did you take a poll). They are the one percent who see people with something they don't have, decide they want what this other person has, but want it given to them instead of working for it like the other 99% do.
Likening these crybabies' actions (pooping on police cars, whining because they're cold) to the people who gave up everything (those people were the wealthy you rail against) and fought and died in the American Revolution? Give me a break. No leader? More semantics! Or are you seriously trying to convince us that these people just happened to show up at a specific place without any suggestion by anyone else? A leader doesn't have to give orders, he just needs followers.

Ken Coy December 12, 2011 at 06:26 pm

Following Mr. Parker's suggestion (yes, he is a leader) i did more reading and discovered that Mr. Wilfahrt is correct is saying that the tents are symbolic. Every time the police have removed the tents in the evening, almost none of them have been occupied. Almost all of the protesters go home at night to get a good meal and sleep in a warm bed while pretending that they have to endure extreme hardships to make their protest. I have to admit that I'm impressed by their duplicity.

mike December 26, 2011 at 03:40 pm

Funny .......... ask how many of them voted for the current president... have u seen the change?????????